Unknown undescribed problem

spamer80

Member
I`ve recently filled my tank with BAD fuel. Motorcycle was delivered from the road to my garage and I started to check all. Changed fuel completely - still could not stard. Then I`ve found that my rear spark plug MELTED. Changed it with new one. No start. Cleaned injector and IACV and finally started.
BUT.
Now I can not go to D mode because the "-" indicator constantly blinking. There is no error codes. It`s just CONSTANTLY BLINKING
There is no descriptions about this in both service and owner`s manual.
The dealer does not know anything about this.
Can anyone ask dealer or someone else what does it means?
 
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Overthehill

New member
Hi spamer80
Personally I cannot imaging what would cause a spark plug to "melt" but the fact that you could replace it and start the engine is promising.
If the indicator light is flashing at 7.5 second intervals that suggests that there are no codes stored.
For me, if you haven't already, initially I would disconnect the battery for 5-10 minutes and reconnect and see if the "system" resets.
If that fails page 11-21 suggests there is a "fail safe function" which stops the bike from going into gear...worth a look.
Failing that, on pages 11-26/27 there are 7 possible causes for non operation of neutral/drive. 9-1(9), 9-2(9), 17-1(17), 19-1(19), 31-1(31), 41-1(41) and 42-2(42).
Finally, page 11-28 tells how/when to re-initialise HFT
Personally i don't see how dirty fuel could affect the HFT.
Perhaps the overheating/melting of the rear spark plug has caused the system to go into lock down as a safety precaution by creating a sensor trip (the fail safe on page 11-21).
I would go thru pages 24-25 just to be sure that all dtc's are cleared.
Hope you can get her back on the road soon
I don't believe how complicated these babies are!!
I don't think my Goldwing was even this complicated.
Cheers and good luck
Pete
 

spamer80

Member
Hi spamer80
Personally I cannot imaging what would cause a spark plug to "melt" but the fact that you could replace it and start the engine is promising.
If the indicator light is flashing at 7.5 second intervals that suggests that there are no codes stored.
I know about 7.5 seconds, but it continiously blinks every 1 second or maybe faster (have not tried actually to measure) .
For me, if you haven't already, initially I would disconnect the battery for 5-10 minutes and reconnect and see if the "system" resets.
I`ve also tried this. I`ve tried to disconnect both battery, TCM and ECM.
If that fails page 11-21 suggests there is a "fail safe function" which stops the bike from going into gear...worth a look.
I`ve read all this too. But this is not a code, just blinks.
Failing that, on pages 11-26/27 there are 7 possible causes for non operation of neutral/drive. 9-1(9), 9-2(9), 17-1(17), 19-1(19), 31-1(31), 41-1(41) and 42-2(42).
Finally, page 11-28 tells how/when to re-initialise HFT
The blinks does not allow to do this. I can`t re-initialise HFT while it`s blinking like this.
Personally i don't see how dirty fuel could affect the HFT. Perhaps the overheating/melting of the rear spark plug has caused the system to go into lock down as a safety precaution by creating a sensor trip (the fail safe on page 11-21).
Me too, it wasn`t after bad fuel. It`s started after injector disassembly and cleaning. Maybe I`ve just clamped some wire somewhere, but I still can`t find it.
I would go thru pages 24-25 just to be sure that all dtc's are cleared.
I can`t read DTC and can`t clean DTC.
Hope you can get her back on the road soon
I don't believe how complicated these babies are!!
I don't think my Goldwing was even this complicated.
Cheers and good luck
Pete
Thnx. Me too.

The spark plug.

And video.
https://youtu.be/fGSvhWmRBWo
 
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Gizmo

Active member
Site Suporter
Personally I feel that the 'new' problem: "flashing dash" in HFT is self-induced when you took the fuel system apart to be cleaned. Seems to me that something wasn't re-assembled right or shorted. I would be checking the wiring to/from the HFT unit because the bike now starts and runs. It seems like "somewhere" on this forum someone had a similar problem or had gotten that flashing indication too. It just sounds familiar. Sorry I couldn't help more.
 

spamer80

Member
Thank you for your reply. The bike sometimes starts, sometimes not (when you close the throttle, it won't hold idle). I've found that this is because of IACV, it's kind of stuck or something like that. Removed all plastic from bike today and right now going after oil pressure sensor. In other topics I've described tcm error 45 indicated sometime, when I turn ignition on or try to go from D to N. Next month I plan to buy new iacv, new n/d solenoid valve and if it will not work - new TCM.

UPD
One good former dn rider gave me an idea. Can anybody check, what the bike shows on dashboard when you stop the engine with kill switch while in "D" mode and also when you open kickstand in "D" mode?
I surely tried to run it both kickstand open and closed, but I need the indication.
 
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Overthehill

New member
Hi spamer
First one....horizontal bar flashes 4 slow then 5 quick and cycles
Second one...just continuous quick flashes
Hope this helps
cheers
Pete
 

spamer80

Member
Neutral oil pressure switch was changed yesterday to the new one. No effect. And I`m not sure if it was "slow". I`ve seen the slow blinking before (eactly error 45(1)) and it looked very different and much easier to read.

But thanks.
 
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Gizmo

Active member
Site Suporter
Thank you for your reply. The bike sometimes starts, sometimes not (when you close the throttle, it won't hold idle). I've found that this is because of IACV, it's kind of stuck or something like that. Removed all plastic from bike today and right now going after oil pressure sensor. In other topics I've described tcm error 45 indicated sometime, when I turn ignition on or try to go from D to N. Next month I plan to buy new iacv, new n/d solenoid valve and if it will not work - new TCM.

UPD
One good former dn rider gave me an idea. Can anybody check, what the bike shows on dashboard when you stop the engine with kill switch while in "D" mode and also when you open kickstand in "D" mode?
I surely tried to run it both kickstand open and closed, but I need the indication.

Bike running, "D" selected, Kill Switch ON: Red and Yellow lights lit, "D" indication NOW "FLASHING" single bar ... sound familiar!

Bike running, "D" selected, kickstand open: Green, Red, and Yellow lights lit: "D" indication NOW blank.

I hope this helps somewhat
 

spamer80

Member
Bike running, "D" selected, Kill Switch ON: Red and Yellow lights lit, "D" indication NOW "FLASHING" single bar ... sound familiar!

Bike running, "D" selected, kickstand open: Green, Red, and Yellow lights lit: "D" indication NOW blank.

I hope this helps somewhat
Thanks! I've also whote to the Honda USA with this question. (Because our local dealer even doesn't have the HDS pocket tester).
 

Gizmo

Active member
Site Suporter
Thanks! I've also whote to the Honda USA with this question. (Because our local dealer even doesn't have the HDS pocket tester).

Local dealers are NOT the most knowledgeable about the DN-01 since it's so rare ... at last that is how it is in The States.
 



spamer80

Member
I`m going to buy the US version ECM (ECU/PGM-Fi) because it`s much cheaper than EU version.
Can anyone with US (AU) version of the bike (2 headlights) tell me, does there is H.I.S.S. present on their bikes?
 

Gizmo

Active member
Site Suporter
I`m going to buy the US version ECM (ECU/PGM-Fi) because it`s much cheaper than EU version.
Can anyone with US (AU) version of the bike (2 headlights) tell me, does there is H.I.S.S. present on their bikes?

NO H.I.S.S. on my bike (2009 US Version) We hardly EVER get any of the GOOD stuff!
 

spamer80

Member
Thanks! So, I should buy the EU verion of ECM probably. I think it will be pain in the ass to bypass HISS, CARB and PAIR systems at the same time :(
But $200 for US vs $500 for EU ECM makes me cry.

Called EU honda today. They said that it could be the mechanical malfunction too. They can`t diagnose "by photo". So I plan to check the clutch, clutch relay, the swash plate motor, angle sensor and the HFT free turn too. Just to be sure.

But I still don`t understand how it`s possible could be related.
Step-by-step:
Bike stopped on highway. Spark plug melted, rear injector dirty (error code checked). Does not hold idle. NO SIGN OF BLINKING "-".
In garage (disassembly): Still NO SIGN OF BLINKING "-". removed gas tank, removed ECM, removed air filter housing, removed injector, cleaned injector. Cleaned IACV.
In garage (assembly): Installed injector, air filter housing, ECM, gas tank. And now "-" blinking.

The only possible reasons I can see: before disconnecting ECM, I surely switched off ignition, but did not diconnect the battery. It SOMEHOW caused some short circuit or so, and SOME electric (or electro-mechanic) part died.

TCM replaced, so it`s not it.

Reasons for ECM: 1) it was disturbed while injector cleaning. 2) The third party motorcycle diagnostic tool could not connect to ECM with first try. Sometimes it needed about 50 tries to connect. And it could not read the DN-specific sensors information.
Reasons against ECM: 1) Engine is working perfectly. All lights (N, oil, ABS etc) come on and off when it needed to. And ECM can detect errors if I try to disconnect ome sensor 2) The blinking "-" is related to HFT (TCM) but not to ECM. To ECM related "check engine"
MIL blinking.
Reasons for n/d clutch (or it`s relay or swash plate control motor/sensor etc): 1) Can`t shift N/D 2) It is mechanical, so may be no error code.
Reasons against n/d clutch (or it`s relay or swash plate control motor/sensor etc): 1) It was not disturbed. 2) For some problems there is error code exists.
 
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Overthehill

New member
Not sounding good !!
Have you checked the drive/neutral handlebar switch for correct action, voltage etc and the wiring from the switch to .....wherever it goes
Could be something simple like a broken connection
Just sayin'
cheers
Pete
 

spamer80

Member
Not sounding good !!
Have you checked the drive/neutral handlebar switch for correct action, voltage etc and the wiring from the switch to .....wherever it goes
Could be something simple like a broken connection
Just sayin'
cheers
Pete
Sure. It was almost the first to check. I`m still thinking about ECM or electronic fault as the most possible. Because the blinking "-" appears even without engine started just with ignition switched on. And without engine running, HFT is not working too, because there is no hydraulic or any other pressure etc.
So, what`s going on after turn on the key? Fuel pump starts, relays starts. N/D clutch ready? All-system-check. And somewhere THERE is a tiny fault.
 
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Overthehill

New member
Just throwing thoughts out here.
Have you tried removing the n/d solenoid valve and giving it a few taps etc
could be stuck in the wrong position
I'd be looking at smaller things rather than the ecu
If the ecu had fried you wouldn't be starting the bike and would probably be getting messages.
Silly I know, but have you checked ALL the fuses, especially the HFT one?
Can't think of much else except going thru the HFT section page by page!!!
It looks like you live in a pretty extreme climate and corrosion is a big possibility, switches, connectors etc
I can't imagine living in the climate you do...hot(40c+ here)...OK...cold(minus something or other for you)...nooooo way!!
MOST of Australia barely gets below zero in winter except for a few low population areas, and heavy weather like you experience is pretty much a rarity.
And, seeing the photos of your bike in "winter mode" There has got to be a correlation between that and something faulting.
Sorry I can't be more constructive.
Good luck
Pete
 

senior

New member
You said there is no code for "blinking". check page no 59 and you may find:
The oil pressure indicator will go ON and will indicate the HFT trouble code (blink) the system will also switch the N/D clutch to neutral]. Considering the oil pressure indicator goes off after engine starts i might think the HFT is responsible for failure.
See the explanations relating to HFT operation at page 56. The only piece left not tested/checked by you but very important as it swich from N to D mode is the LOCKUP SOLENOID VALVE. This piece stop/release the oil fluid pressure which make possible to engage or not the clutch. Before ordering ECM module ( 500 $ ) instead of you I would check this last piece and the conduits from TCM to it.

Pages 56 and 59 from Maintenance Manual.
 
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